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Viewing cable 06THEHAGUE1787, NETHERLANDS/JSF: OPEN-MINDED PARLIAMENTARY

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Discussing cables
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Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
06THEHAGUE1787 2006-08-15 08:08 2011-01-17 00:12 CONFIDENTIAL Embassy The Hague
Appears in these articles:
Cable
04THEHAGUE2415
On
EU-membership
Turkey
http://content1b.omroep.nl/57671e06004c11fe8aee220237f1c1e3/4d34425e/nos/docs/wikileaks/04THEHAGUE2415.pdf
04THEHAGUE2735
On
EU-membership
Turkey
http://content1c.omroep.nl/6b3db36fcbbf38cb043bd1a2b2ac220c/4d3445d9/nos/docs/wikileaks/04THEHAGUE2735.pdf
05THEHAGUE1434
On
EU-membership
Turkey
http://content1d.omroep.nl/c448f32c7c20c61092ad2107cceb962e/4d3445e5/nos/docs/wikileaks/05THEHAGUE1434.pdf
05THEHAGUE2599
On
Geert
WIlders
http://content1b.omroep.nl/3a3c70db98ac5eb8760eb1c03b92f141/4d3445f9/nos/docs/wikileaks/05THEHAGUE2599.pdf
06THEHAGUE834
On
Geert
WIlders
http://content1a.omroep.nl/531f659eb99e92f528b6c9dcaa5373cd/4d344607/nos/docs/wikileaks/06THEHAGUE834.pdf
06THEHAGUE2597
On
Geert
WIlders
http://content1c.omroep.nl/708e678c9a47994dbde3275fc6f4a80c/4d344654/nos/docs/wikileaks/06THEHAGUE2597.pdf
07THEHAGUE1295
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1d.omroep.nl/5d71ea5d51f8a5898e365e771bb4fd43/4d34465f/nos/docs/wikileaks/07THEHAGUE1295.pdf
07THEHAGUE1364
On
AWACS
http://content1d.omroep.nl/da1d29ba2a816716ff5dad4d27210713/4d34466f/nos/docs/wikileaks/07THEHAGUE1364.pdf
07THEHAGUE1729
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1b.omroep.nl/90b177f1ac30616c19fec1eac422d1a9/4d34467b/nos/docs/wikileaks/07THEHAGUE1729.pdf
07THEHAGUE2082
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1c.omroep.nl/365ab2aa2d122f1afbcbb420e903437e/4d344687/nos/docs/wikileaks/07THEHAGUE2082.pdf
08THEHAGUE102
On
the
film
Fitna
by
Geert
Wilders
http://content1a.omroep.nl/9f94e30da329f4a5440bdaec80912c2f/4d344696/nos/docs/wikileaks/08THEHAGUE102.pdf
08JEDDAH401
-
08THEHAGUE133
On
the
film
Fitna
by
Geert
Wilders
http://content1c.omroep.nl/ff1e070ec488567fced5fc14542f87e9/4d3446a6/nos/docs/wikileaks/08JEDDAH84.pdf
08THEHAGUE185
On
AWACS
http://content1b.omroep.nl/17f44d5100bcd9d2f8697723a305da52/4d3446b7/nos/docs/wikileaks/08THEHAGUE185.pdf
08THEHAGUE302
On
the
film
Fitna
by
Geert
Wilders
http://content1c.omroep.nl/c76e4c9adb051af2fa7e449dcf8ada57/4d3447d3/nos/docs/wikileaks/08THEHAGUE302.pdf
09THEHAGUE92
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1c.omroep.nl/6a98ac73d3027ce3acfdaf1b05b321ea/4d3447e6/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE92.pdf
09THEHAGUE196
On
Maxime
Verhagen
and
the
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1b.omroep.nl/c051cf59634edbbd61459741a01b8f3a/4d3447f2/nos/docs/wikileaks/afghanistan_09THEHAGUE196.pdf
07THEHAGUE714
On
the
Joint
Strike
Fighter
http://content1a.omroep.nl/071b1b715b6fdbff0fe2bd41743c7a7a/4d344808/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE264.pdf
09THEHAGUE264
On
the
Joint
Strike
Fighter
http://content1b.omroep.nl/1468100a066d78fc0bc4a59d28a4a683/4d34483b/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE264.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE271
(24-04-09):
On
the
Joint
Strike
Fighter
http://content1a.omroep.nl/201c1fa1234dc76574421cdde39c4c16/4d34481c/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE271.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE328
(02-06-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1a.omroep.nl/f8094fe30fcaf390c47232299ed62cb5/4d344879/nos/docs/wikileaks/afghanistan_09THEHAGUE328.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE395
(06-07-09):
On
Geert
WIlders
http://content1a.omroep.nl/b9066689664b60d15bc714eb1df089fb/4d3448ac/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE395.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE399
(06-07-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
and
Wouter
Bos
http://content1c.omroep.nl/67ac7aa0af3a267435a5b161e883ed3a/4d3448be/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE399.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE418
(13-07-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
and
Wouter
Bos
http://content1d.omroep.nl/b25c9d859b9e17b64710f96bd0c2cef2/4d3448db/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE418.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE514
(25-08-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
and
Wouter
Bos
http://content1c.omroep.nl/266a7c477784f54fd7d745a15d29c1c6/4d3448e8/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE514.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE543
(10-09-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1c.omroep.nl/f331f8ee45e8d74dca37b1ef7088e4db/4d344a32/nos/docs/wikileaks/afghanistan_09THEHAGUE543.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE567
(18-09-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
and
Wouter
Bos
http://content1c.omroep.nl/39b064f4b6e3d9dd1862c15e0059fb9d/4d344a4f/nos/docs/wikileaks/afghanistan_09THEHAGUE567.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE568
(21-09-09):
On
the
Joint
Strike
Fighter
http://content1c.omroep.nl/85e8e7dc894345d17cbcc27f6eb66698/4d344a5a/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE568.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE726
(03-12-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1b.omroep.nl/2a610a1bfe8c49639436ab141a6026e0/4d344a68/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE726.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE731
(04-12-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1c.omroep.nl/6cc328f7f99495831cacb65f35d7bb3e/4d344a76/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE731.pdf
Cable
09THEHAGUE759
(21-12-09):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
and
Wouter
Bos
http://content1c.omroep.nl/fc5628caae93733548c16ed699e48143/4d344a84/nos/docs/wikileaks/09THEHAGUE759.pdf
Cable
10THEHAGUE114
(24-02-10):
On
the
IASF-mission
in
Afghanistan
http://content1d.omroep.nl/dc9ccc5066968d4ac6a224581fc0aa28/4d344a90/nos/docs/wikileaks/afghanistan_10THEHAGUE114.pdf
VZCZCXYZ0001
OO RUEHWEB

DE RUEHTC #1787/01 2270821
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
O 150821Z AUG 06
FM AMEMBASSY THE HAGUE
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 6548
INFO RUEHZG/NATO EU COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
RUEKJCS/CJCS WASHDC PRIORITY
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHDC PRIORITY
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC PRIORITY
C O N F I D E N T I A L THE HAGUE 001787 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EUR/UBI; OSD FOR FRANK KENLON, MARY MILLER 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/14/2016 
TAGS: MARR PGOV PREL NL
SUBJECT: NETHERLANDS/JSF: OPEN-MINDED PARLIAMENTARY 
DELEGATION EXPECTS...


74884,8/15/2006 8:21,06THEHAGUE1787,"Embassy The
Hague",CONFIDENTIAL,,"VZCZCXYZ0001
OO RUEHWEB
DE RUEHTC #1787/01 2270821
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
O 150821Z AUG 06
FM AMEMBASSY THE HAGUE
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 6548
INFO RUEHZG/NATO EU COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
RUEKJCS/CJCS WASHDC PRIORITY
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHDC PRIORITY
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC PRIORITY","C O N F I D E N T I A L THE HAGUE
001787
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
STATE FOR EUR/UBI; OSD FOR FRANK KENLON, MARY MILLER
E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/14/2016
TAGS: MARR PGOV PREL NL
SUBJECT: NETHERLANDS/JSF: OPEN-MINDED PARLIAMENTARY
DELEGATION EXPECTS ANSWERS DURING UPCOMING VISIT
Classified By: Ambassador Roland Arnall, reasons 1.4 (b,d)

1. (C) Summary: A delegation of Dutch parliamentary Defense
Committee members intends to keep an ""open mind"" during their
upcoming ""fact-finding"" trip to Washington and Ft. Worth to
discuss the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program.
Parliamentary supporters and critics alike voiced concerns
during an August 14 lunch with the Ambassador, including the
U.S. political commitment to the program and affiliated
budget discussions, technology transfer issues, prospects for
Dutch business, defense acquisition priorities, the unit
price of the aircraft, other technology advances such as
unmanned aerial vehicles, and the creation of a ""maintenance
valley"" in the Netherlands. End summary.

2. (U) Ambassador Arnall met August 14 for lunch with members
of the Parliamentary Defense Committee delegation traveling
to Washington and Ft. Worth on Aug. 27-30 to discuss the
Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program. In attendance for the
Dutch were Parliamentary Defense Committee Chair Nebahat
Albayrak (Labor Party), Luk Blom (Labor), Mat Herben (List
Pim Fortuyn), and Gonnie de Boer (Defense Committee staffer).
Roland Kortenhorst (Christian Democrats), and Willibrord van
Beek and Zsolt Szabo (VVD) also will participate in the trip,
but were not able to attend the lunch. U.S. attendees
included ODC Chief COL David Kelly and polmiloff Jason Grubb.

3. (C) Amb. Arnall stressed that the purpose of the lunch was
to sound out parliamentary concerns in order to ensure
Washington and Lockheed Martin were prepared to answer their
questions during their upcoming trip. Albayrak noted that
the delegation was maintaining an ""open-mind,"" and hoped to
use the trip as a fact-finding mission in order to arrive at
""well-informed "" positions on the program. She explained
that JSF is a somewhat controversial issue, as it will be
discussed in the campaign leading up to the parliamentary
elections scheduled for November 22. She added that while
delegation members Kortenhorst, Szabo, and van Beek could not
attend the meeting, the two extremes of those supporting and
opposing the mission were represented in the attendance of
Herben and Blom. (Note: Szabo, van Beek, and Kortenhorst
support the JSF program. End note.)

Supporter's Concerns
--------------------

4. (C) Herben stressed that he was a strong supporter of the
JSF program, noting that he had voted in favor of it twice --
""no one doubts that JSF is the best bang for the buck,"" he
said. He believed that the program was ""healthy,"" and would
benefit the Dutch. He added that he was in favor of signing
the follow-on MOU in the near future. However, Herben said
he did have some concerns -- most of them related to the U.S
political process. He described various JSF budget
discussions in Congress and the deliberation over the second,
back-up engine as vexing -- he hoped to receive a strong
indication during meetings in Washington that the USG was
strongly committed to the program. He also raised the issue
of technology transfer -- like the United Kingdom, the
Netherlands would like access to technology such as strategic
software, Herben said.

Critic's Questions
------------------

5. (C) Blom presented a critical assessment of the program.
While he agrees JSF is the ""best plane for the best price,""
he said his Labor Party would prefer to buy the plane off the
shelf rather than participate further in the program. In his
mind, he sees ""too many red stop lights"" in the program --
these concerns could be turned to ""orange or even green,"" but
for now, he advocates leaving the program. Several concerns
that he hoped would be addressed during the trip included:
-- Prospects for Dutch business: Blom argued that Dutch
industry had not received enough contracts to warrant further
participation in the program. He dismissed claims that
non-participation in the program would signify the demise of
the Dutch aerospace industry, and noted that most contracts
were going to Dutch industrial giant Stork rather than Dutch
small- and medium-sized businesses. Amb. Arnall and COL
Kelly noted that Stork had subcontracted out to 40 Dutch
industries, laboratories, and technical universities.
Nevertheless, Blom said ""if you want to change my mind, then
give us more contracts,"" and claimed that participation in
the program thus far has not generated any new additional
jobs for Dutch industry.
-- Strategic Defense: Blom noted that the Labor Party
supported Dutch military deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan,
and will likely support future deployments overseas to places
like Africa. He questioned, however whether the JSF was the
weapons system needed for such missions, or whether it made
more sense to continue to upgrade the Dutch F-16s for a
number of years, and spend money now on transport and armored
vehicles. He reiterated that he supports buying JSF
aircraft, but said the GONL must prioritize, and other needs
should come first at the expense of JSF.
-- Technology transfer issues: Blom repeated arguments made
by Herben that the Dutch should be granted access to critical
program technologies like strategic software.
-- Aircraft Unit Price: Blom said he has repeatedly asked USG
and Lockheed Martin representatives for the unit price of the
plane, and has been told ""not to worry"" as the price of the
plane will be approximately 40-50 million euros. Blom
questioned whether this was accurate, especially as earlier
line versions of the aircraft are estimated to be three times
more expensive, and pointed to similar conclusions in a
General Accounting Office (GAO) report. He has asked
frequently for the ""end of the road,"" ""not to exceed"" (NTE)
cost of the plane -- ""just tell me the ceiling,"" Blom said.
-- Other technological advances: Blom noted new advances in
unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) might suggest that the Dutch
delay or even forego purchasing JSF. Polmiloff said the
delegation would receive a brief in Washington making clear
that UAVs were complimentary to -- but could not replace --
manned systems.

Maintenance Valley; Grippen Fighter?
------------------------------------

6. (C) Albayrak suggested that the program was more
complicated than just a Dutch-U.S. bilateral issue, and
pointed to Dutch discussions with other European partners to
potentially form a European footprint ""maintenance valley"" in
the Netherlands. Blom and Albayrak acknowledged that a
maintenance valley could be a factor in determining whether
the Labor Party could support the JSF program. However, Blom
questioned what the maintenance valley would entail. He
argued that a facility focused on just engine maintenance and
sustainment might mean an additional 300 new jobs for the
Netherlands, and therefore not worth continued Dutch
participation in the program. However, if the facility were
to involve development and production of the second back-up
engine, then this might mean an additional 1,500-2,000 jobs
-- this would be hard to ignore. Albayrak also said that
Dutch parliamentarians are interested in discussions with
Norway regarding a new Grippen ""Nordic"" fighter, and asked if
the technical air optimization report would be released by
the end of 2006.

Transatlantic Ties
------------------

7. (C) While Herben agreed that JSF program participation
exceeded just the U.S.-Dutch relationship, he nevertheless
pointed to the program's significance to the transatlantic
relationship. Blom stressed that he was a strong proponent
of transatlantic ties, and said his opposition to the JSF
program should not cast any doubts in that regard.

Interpreter Requested
---------------------

8. (U) Blom noted that his English was perhaps not as strong
as other delegation members. Given the importance of the
trip, he asked if it might be possible for an interpreter to
be available during the delegation's meetings.
BLAKEMAN